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Author Topic: Gunslingers pt1 (OOC)  (Read 18097 times)

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Offline Adel

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Gunslingers pt1 (OOC)
« Reply #200 on: June 08, 2005, 10:04:37 AM »
LadyC your post as ever made me smile. Which was even more impressive as I had just taken a bite of ORANGE kitkat which I found out was disgusting. How can orange+chocolate taste SO bad?!

Anyway back to Charles' clean derriere.

Having played and GMed with the guys for a lot of years I can assure you that no-one will be giving up soon. A downed character is not going to stop us. If necessary we will grind it out. You wont believe Wayne and his unwillingness to concede defeat. Believe me that's after hours and hours and hours............

I think there are many, many ways to get out of this situation. I dont think we will require a jail break for Wayne but if it comes necessary then what western isnt complete without one?

Wont post all my ideas as its always best to keep a GM on his toes. Charles' superior intellect (ahem) will get him out of this. Gribble is used to women saving him.

I do think some of the above posts have been a bit ranty. However each post is offering plenty of reconciliation so the way is definitely forward and we shall move so together.

Offline LadyCatreece

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Gunslingers pt1 (OOC)
« Reply #201 on: June 08, 2005, 03:33:27 PM »
Well, it is clear than anything I say at this point and afterwards will be seen as being too close to the situation to be objective. Very harsh. I like to think that I have my own opinions and views regardless of who I live with or am married to. Obvioulsy some feel the opposite.


Quote from: QUOTE
If you can't see that, it is because you are either too close to the situation to be objective (my bet) or too used to this stifling GM style (but I doubt it).
« Last Edit: June 08, 2005, 03:36:57 PM by LadyCatreece »
Nya!

Offline ictus

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Gunslingers pt1 (OOC)
« Reply #202 on: June 08, 2005, 11:11:18 PM »
Well, interesting argument, let the players play as they see fit, and die as they choose, don't save them for the sake of the game, or kill them for cheesing you off.

I don't believe there is a right or wrong at this time, but there could be issues if you keep talking about getting personal

Be carful what you wish for, it may come true ;)
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Offline Gribble

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Gunslingers pt1 (OOC)
« Reply #203 on: June 09, 2005, 07:19:56 AM »
Good input Ictus.  

BUT.  

We want to play as we see fit, within reason, and have the opportunity to work through the adventure our OWN way.  Not just be given the option of dancing to the GM's tune or being shot like mad dogs.  Thats what this is all about.



LadyC I wasn't meaning to say that you don't have your own opinions its just I didn't think you were necessarily expressing them.  You were answering for Sorloc after all.

Your input is welcome, particularly as I enjoy playing with you and want to continue this game.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2005, 07:28:00 AM by Gribble »
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Offline ictus

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Gunslingers pt1 (OOC)
« Reply #204 on: June 09, 2005, 11:35:20 AM »
Gribble, so far all your PCs have played a particular role, agresive gungho and up for it, well roleplayed withing them roles.

Have you ever tried other option, perhaps your next PC could be a gutless coward that will avoid fighting at all cost, and be honest, trustworthy and wise.

I have always liked to play different types of PCs, from hero types to bag carrying surfs, good and evil, sane and not so sane, I get more out of the game that way.

You also have to realise, that just going for it and shooting first would in the real world get you dead very quickly, so if the GM kills you off, don't be surprise, as there is a simulation aspect to roleplaying that is always present.

But saying that, play the PC the way you think the PC should play, if they get killed so be it, at least you roleplayed it to death ;)
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Offline Gribble

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Gunslingers pt1 (OOC)
« Reply #205 on: June 09, 2005, 04:00:56 PM »
errr ... up yours too!
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Offline ictus

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Gunslingers pt1 (OOC)
« Reply #206 on: June 09, 2005, 06:09:51 PM »
err...I hope that was one of your little jokes

or did you not get what I was saying?

there was nothing bad there, just some observations and a compliment if you read it right, or maybe I need to elaberate, let me know.
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Offline Gribble

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Gunslingers pt1 (OOC)
« Reply #207 on: June 10, 2005, 11:20:59 AM »
err ... not entirely.  My characters on this site are not really up for discussion in this thread anyway.  I will be heappy to discuss my roleplaying ability and choice of character with you, somewhere else but I don't think it has any relevance to the discussion that you have stepped into.

Quote from: QUOTE
You also have to realise, that just going for it and shooting first would in the real world get you dead very quickly, so if the GM kills you off, don't be surprise, as there is a simulation aspect to roleplaying that is always present.

err.... up yours, too!  How naiive do you think I am?  I/we haven't done that anyway.  An NPC has.  If anything you should be saying that to Sorloc.  Try to read threads properly before posting your opinion next time and maybe I won't tell you to stick your head where the sun doesn't shine ....

Sorloc should be posting his replies to our reasonably phrased questions now.  Not LadyC and Not you, Ictus.
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Offline ictus

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Gunslingers pt1 (OOC)
« Reply #208 on: June 10, 2005, 12:06:19 PM »
OK, the up uours comment, is not called for or welcome.

As for your other characters, I GM one and play with another, and REALLY like the way they are played, so there was no hidden meaning about mentioning them, just to say that you have to date played the stronge PC who acts, and haven't played the less assertive type, as yet.

I also think there is a stronge possability of culture conflict issues being involved here. Americans tend to take things more litrally and personally than we do over here, I have often posted something I thought was funny, and others did, yet they where taken very differently over the pond.

And as your sence of humer is quite brash (I find it very funny, just so you don't missunderstand me) both in game and out of it, so you may have to add subtitles for the less obvious comments.

As for what is going on in the game, that is between you and the GM, it was your comments in this thread, that where getting my attention.

If you want my oppinion of your in game stuff, well, NPCs can and should have strange personalities, and should have their own motivations.

But on the other side, a GM can only create these things, they can't create the story, that is for the players to do, even if it spoils the intended plot.

An gribble, the sun shines out of there anyway :P
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Offline Sorloc

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Gunslingers pt1 (OOC)
« Reply #209 on: June 10, 2005, 12:37:54 PM »
Just let me know when it's my turn.

"Terrible what passes for a ninja these days" -- Pops Racer (John Goodman), Speed Racer (2008)
"How hard can it be?" -- Indiana Jones (Harrison Ford), Temple of Doom (1984)

Offline Gribble

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Gunslingers pt1 (OOC)
« Reply #210 on: June 10, 2005, 02:04:12 PM »
<deep breath>

okay Ictus, i now accept that you weren't shining me on (with that bright light that shines from ...).  Sorry for jumping back at you.

Sorloc, your turn.

Please note that despite my brash posting I am keen to press on with your adventure and haven't intended to cause you any real offence (and I doubt that I have).  We are obviously suffering from a couple of minor culture differences that we are managing to blow up out of proportion.

Please note that from our perspective that arguing with (and winding up) the GM is part and parcel of our usual roleplaying experience.
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Offline ictus

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Gunslingers pt1 (OOC)
« Reply #211 on: June 10, 2005, 02:24:55 PM »
Then I can go kill hobbits, fantastic ;)

See you on boot hill Master Gribble
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Offline Gribble

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Gunslingers pt1 (OOC)
« Reply #212 on: June 10, 2005, 02:30:13 PM »
With laser beams coming out of their eyes?  That would be cool ...


You first ...
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Offline Sorloc

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Gunslingers pt1 (OOC)
« Reply #213 on: June 19, 2005, 10:33:05 PM »
Okay, I’ve been sitting back just watching and listening to see what would happen. Usually, when someone is flying off the handle, you can usually just let them vent, as much of what is said is just frustration and anger, and not always pertinent to the situation; people tend to carry a lot of frustration around with them, and then unintentionally unleash it upon whomever was unlucky enough to ‘push the button’. Usually what happens is that the person, if not antagonized further, will expend all their energy, and realize they’ve just acted like a prang.

I've been thinking about how to address this for a while, obviously.  Although a recent post was somewhat conciliatory, I don't feel it went far enough, so I am going to release my thoughts.

Let me start by apologizing for putting this into a game thread - that's not where it belongs, but that's where the conversation has been placed.

First of all, Gribble, Up yours.
One: Since you have taken it upon yourself to take an OOC game conversation and make it into a forum for personal attacks, I’d like to address that first. Be very sure, in the most private depths of your soul, that I do not need anyone to do my speaking for me, especially not to you. I have not asked anyone to post in here on my behalf, nor have I asked anyone to talk to you, publicly or privately on my behalf. I have asked some GMs whose opinions I respect, and some I don’t know at all, to look over the threads and give me their opinions, but I said nothing about posting in this forum about it. My personal opinion (and you should have thought of this) is that the people who did post were trying to calm the situation down, probably to protect you from me, not to argue on my behalf. Well, that failed. Now you get to hear my opinions on the crap that’s been coming out of you, if you’ve the courage to read it.
I’ll just address each of your personal attacks as they come, then.

Quote from: QUOTE(Gribble Posted: Jun 7 2005 @  04:42 PM)

Your actions as GM and your NPCs have been particularly unimaginative and one dimensional.
No, you expected them (the NPCs) to be, and have apparently been quite shocked that they’re not. You seem to expect the Lawmen to sit in the jail waiting for trouble to come to them. You seem to expect that if you push NPCs into harm’s way, they will just go, like pieces on a board. Most of all, you seem surprised and dare I say, irritated that I have given Marribelle personality. Brown Beaver, Marribelle, Joachim Steuben… these characters seem unimaginative and one dimensional to you? I say that you see them that way because that is all you choose to see. That is, perhaps, all you want to get.
Quote from: QUOTE(Gribble Posted: Jun 8 2005 @  06:04 AM)
if the GM that controls him is ... not crying that his favourite npc has been hurt...
It is time to get personal because that is what the current problem is. Sorloc appears to be taking too much of a personal interest in what is happening. If you can't see that, it is because you are either too close to the situation to be objective (my bet) or too used to this stifling GM style (but I doubt it) ...he shouldn't place his ego directly in their path either.
I believe you are referring to yourself and your character in that first statement.
Personal interest… hmm… yes, I admit that I was somewhat annoyed that all plot threads were ignored in favor of starting a fight with anyone available, but if that’s what you guys want to do, then okay. I can always run those other adventures for someone else. I was also somewhat annoyed that the actions of the PCs seemed intended to make a feature film into a 20-minute short. The players seemed to want/expect the final climactic gunfight to occur before all the characters were even introduced. OK, if that’s what you want, then fine. I’m disappointed, but the name of the game is to have fun, and if the players will have more fun doing just gun battles, then that’s what I should run. I didn’t realize that at first; I made the assumption that the players would play the adventure as presented, and was mistaken.
Too close to the situation may be a correct assessment – as in, playing in the game and trying to follow the adventure. Breed chose to give up on Ash, because he couldn’t see any way to play that character without being killed by the other PCs. Just because LadyCatreece isn’t willing to abandon her character is no reason to criticize her.
So I’m placing my ego in your path? Which path is that? When I described the city as a county seat in a state, not a lawless frontier town, perhaps you should have spoken up then, saying, “hey, we want to play a more rough-and-tumble type of game, where the law is weak and/or disinterested.” If my ego is what makes me want to remain true to the setting I have presented, then I must concede the point, but I would say that if my ego and the setting are one and the same, then you might as well say that the setting is blocking your path. And then I might say that when something is in your path, there are other options besides smashing your forehead against it.

Quote from: QUOTE(Gribble Posted: Jun 9 2005 @  03:19 AM)
You were answering for Sorloc after all.
Again, Bullshit. As stated before, and currently being demonstrated, I need no one to speak for me, rather I usually need someone to stop me.
Quote from: QUOTE(Gribble Posted: Jun 9 2005 @  12:00 PM)
errr ... up yours too!
Now, maybe I misinterpreting that lucid, well-thought out and intelligent statement because I was raised in America rather than Britain, but from where I sit, it was a bit uncalled for. Now, I wouldn’t normally have considered it proper form for someone to post in a game they’re not playing in, but this is Icky’s site, and he is Admin, and apparently felt that intervention was justified, and it is within his right to do so. Yes, it irritated me, but I’m not going to post in the open forum and tell him to go to hell and get his nose out of my thread; partly because it’s his thread too, but mostly because that’s not the way I go about things. Now, that’s probably because of my American lack of understanding of the way things work in UK, but there it is.[/color][/font][/b]
« Last Edit: June 19, 2005, 10:34:54 PM by Sorloc »

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Offline Sorloc

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Gunslingers pt1 (OOC)
« Reply #214 on: June 19, 2005, 10:35:43 PM »
As for the game:

There have been a few misconceptions, some intentional, that have led us to this point.

1) Someone mentioned that 'it's us versus them' with respect to players and GMs.  I'm familiar with this concept, but I do not and have not ever subscribed to it.  That's not the way I run my game, and I guess I should have stated that up front.  My purpose when running a game is not to make things as hard as I can for the players and thwart them at every opportunity, it is to create a world / setting and populate it with people and situations for the characters to interact with.  

2) It has become quite obvious that I chose the wrong setting for the players.  The players expected a lawless, rough-and-tumble town where only the law of the gun is supreme, and irregardless of how many times I described it otherwise, responded as if their expectations were more correct than my description.  Now I think this may lead back to point 1- players not trusting their GM.

3) Apparantly, my use of POW as a method for statement of intent is a point of contention, and someone has even gone so far as to accuse me of making this a change in the rules to somehow disadvantage the players.  Even though this is not only untrue and unfounded, but also ridiculous, I will change this method.  I flat out refuse to have a dozen initiative rolls every round, as that will just slow things down too much.  Therefore, in the interests of fairness (which the POW methoud so obviously was not)  we will state our actions in alphabetical order.

4) Why are the 'bad guys' (which they might not be) so smart? - - Well, if you recall, when you were in the Den and talking to Hobart and Duke, they specifically told you that their orders were to observe and report.  Specifically stated in their instructions to Chuck was an admonition to not approach the target, and certainly not speak to him.  This was clearly violated.  Then someone lies to them, unfortunately somewhat transparantly, then shoves them 1) across a street they can't cross while wearing guns, 2) into a hotel where someone they've been ordered to avoid is, and 3) into what is likely a situation dangerous to them.  

5) I apologize, I misspoke in a recent post saying there were 26,000 people in town, when in fact it is 2600 to 3000 (when the trail drives are not in town).

6) Why are the lawmen so omnipresent? You'd know if you observed things beforehand, but in the interest of better understanding and hopefully, some trust in your GM, I will now give you information you'd have gotten had you spent some time in town observing the way things worked, or if you'd chosen to operate on the side of the law.  Marshall Rice normally has 4 deputies; Artemis Hicky, John Goltz, Ed Sellers, and Michael Powers. When the trail drive is expected in, as it is currently, the Marshal hires a few extra men to take care of the extra rowdy population. In the evening and at night most of the deputies, and the Marshal himself, will be south of Texas Avenue, near all the taverns and all the other places of entertainment. But during the day, when the train or the stage arrives, they all stay in that area to observe the comings and goings of new people to town. Marshal Rice usually sits at a table in the front window of the Clumbia Hotel because, from there, he can see not only the stage depot but also the back of the train station. 2 of the deputies are always on horesback, as it is faster than running. These men live in this town and have families here. They take their jobs very seriously, as they are protecting not only the citizens of the town but their own families. They know how dangerous the job is and they act appropriately to that. Marshal Rice is a veteran of the war between the States and, although stationed in Kansas he never saw a Confederate soldier, he fought in numerous skirmishes with the Indians.

7) Since arriving in town, Chuck and Flint have been constantly acting as though this town was a war zone with everyone out to get them. I am running a Gunslinger's game, not a Paranoia game. I am sorry if any of the NPC's gave you the impression that they were out to get you or were just waiting to strike, but I certainly never meant for that to come across.

Moving Forward...

Everyone seems to have expressed an interest in having the game go forward.
I have no problem with that.  I will say. though, that I refuse to change the setting - that would be doing exactly what I was accused of - and I won't have some Deus ex Machina extricate the PCs from the situation they've gotten themselves into.
Yes, I said gotten themselves into.  I took the accusations seriously, and asked no fewer than 8 GMs to read and let me know what they thought.  Very few wished to express an opinion too much favoring one side or the other, of course, but that combined with players' comments, has helped me decide on my current course of action.

I am willing to continue from where we are; I can make this work, and make it fun and interesting for everyone (I hope), but I warn you that things will probably get worse before they get better.

Alternatively, we can halt this game and restart it in a different setting - kind of cheezy, but under the circumstances, I think everyone will understand.  We just say that this game up till now never happened, and go try to find a Lost Gold mine of the Conquistadors.

Let me know.
[/color][/b][/font]

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Offline Gribble

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Gunslingers pt1 (OOC)
« Reply #215 on: June 20, 2005, 01:34:39 PM »
Sorloc, Sorloc, Sorloc.  

I had hoped that things were settling down and that you had taken the time to mull things over and get a grip on things.  I had expressed this view to my fellow players who were telling me to leave it as we could play a better run game elsewhere but I sadly I have been proved wrong.

This multiple quote "style" of posting does my head in but I will adopt it here as there does seem to be a real scattergun effect of flawed logic going on here.  Part of the problem you seem to be continuing to escalate here, is demonstrated in this reductionist approach to understanding.  If you tried harder to grasp issues as a whole, rather than look at each line of discussion separately then we would possibly be moving on rather than giving up.  I don't want to get into a slanging match but I can see that you have made a real effort to try and cut me down here (I am flattered) so I will entertain you with my responses.

Firstly, I must state that there are still no hard feelings on my part so far.  I am amused by your post because it has clearly demonstrated to me that you are in fact not nearly as impartial or as clever as (a) you think you are and (B) constantly try to prove.


Quote
  Okay, I’ve been sitting back just watching and listening to see what would happen. 


I would suggest you could have been using that time more fruitfully by trying to see the issue from my side and not as a competition that you need to win.

And I've been mostly waiting to see what your next move would be.  A side discussion with LadyC and Ictus doesn't really let you off the hook for leaving things this long.

Quote
   Usually, when someone is flying off the handle, you can usually just let them vent, as much of what is said is just frustration and anger, and not always pertinent to the situation;

I wasn't, you didn't, my only frustration is your failure to leave your entrenched way of thinking, it was.

Quote
  people tend to carry a lot of frustration around with them, and then unintentionally unleash it upon whomever was unlucky enough to ‘push the button’.

Not so in my case.  A nice attempt to try and hide a dig by using the "third person".  Any insult by me was unintentional but I can't help people getting offended if thats what they really want to do.

Quote
Usually what happens is that the person, if not antagonized further, will expend all their energy, and realize they’ve just acted like a prang.

This "person" you are talking about is (obviously) not me so I don't really understand why you are trying to distract us from the real issues here.

Quote
I've been thinking about how to address this for a while, obviously. 

But not how to reconcile it which would have been nice.

Quote
Although a recent post was somewhat conciliatory, I don't feel it went far enough, so I am going to release my thoughts.

Thats your real trouble.  When I deal with conflict in a management situation I try to reconcile it.  Usually by looking for common ground and moving forward.  I try not to dichotomise it into black/white or right/wrong and take a side.

Quote
Let me start by apologizing for putting this into a game thread - that's not where it belongs, but that's where the conversation has been placed.

The ooc thread is where my "side" of this (what started out as) a discussion belongs.  Your attempt to make things more personal in order duck the issue of your (lack of) impartiality is still welcome here.  If you chose to try and make it personal then I am happy to do this anywhere.  Please not that I still believe that I have not been offensive about you or your person.  To me it is an honest and reasonable thing to discuss GMing style with one's current GM.  While I now can see that you have felt insulted or threatened by this I can't go back and I am (now)unwilling to let you continue in this vein unchecked.

Quote
First of all, Gribble, Up yours.

I am sorry you feel that way.  Quite what I have posted, to you, to bring you down to that level is beyond me.


Quote
One: Since you have taken it upon yourself to take an OOC game conversation and make it into a forum for personal attacks,

No I haven't.  You have taken it onto yourself to take a valid OOC conversation and be (or act) insulted by it.


Quote
I’d like to address that first. Be very sure, in the most private depths of your soul, that I do not need anyone to do my speaking for me, especially not to you.

Perhaps you should.  Maybe you could get whatever message you have across more clearly then.


Quote
I have not asked anyone to post in here on my behalf, nor have I asked anyone to talk to you, publicly or privately on my behalf.

I didn't think you had and I posted directly to the two miscreants on those occasions.

Quote
  I have asked some GMs whose opinions I respect, and some I don’t know at all, to look over the threads and give me their opinions, but I said nothing about posting in this forum about it.

I am not interested in how "outside" GMs view it and think less of you for you having to do that.  Interesting that you need to discuss it with other "GMs" and not your "players" or other "players".  I am firming up my opinion that what should be an objective issue is really is an ego problem for you.  

Quote
  My personal opinion (and you should have thought of this) is that the people who did post were trying to calm the situation down,

It was mine too (and you know that).  You keep on with the digs and the asides but continue to skirt any real issue.

Quote
probably to protect you from me,

funny


 
Quote
not to argue on my behalf. Well, that failed. Now you get to hear my opinions on the crap that’s been coming out of you,

<tremble>


Quote
  [if you’ve the courage to read it.


oooh!


Quote
I’ll just address each of your personal attacks as they come, then

huh?

Its not personal - apart is the way i see it!  

The whole point of me posting what I perceive is to demonstrate that there is a difference of opinion.  Do you take every disagreement with your view as an affront?  Do you not accept that different people cannot see things differently?


Quote
  No, you expected them (the NPCs) to be, and have apparently been quite shocked that they’re not.

Not at all.  No but I don't think they should all be miniSorloc's either.  You've taken what would have been a good thing too far in this case.  To be fair to Adel and Wayne when they GM there is a much richer tapestry of NPCs than is present here.

Quote
]You seem to expect the Lawmen to sit in the jail waiting for trouble to come to them.

No but there should be a balance.  My opinion is that there isn't.  Your opinion appears to be that it is fair.  This is what needs to be viewed impartially (by you).

 
Quote
You seem to expect that if you push NPCs into harm’s way, they will just go, like pieces on a board.

No, not all.  Some, maybe.  But you can't really criticise me for having Mule try.  I think the issue you should be adressing is that perhaps you can't cope with it when your players don't move around like poeces on a board.  

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Most of all, you seem surprised and dare I say, irritated that I have given Marribelle personality.

Not at all.  I enjoy her there.  Mule is irritated by his sister and I glad that I roleplayed that well enough for you to take notice. From his background it was clear that he and his sister would be having problems.  I thought you were playing that bit very well but now you have me confused as to why it is being used to attack my playing style when it was one of the successes in the game.

 
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]Brown Beaver, Marribelle, Joachim Steuben… these characters seem unimaginative and one dimensional to you?

Brown Beaver and Joachim Steuben haven't had enough interraction with my PC for me to judge yet.  Some of the others are being played like miniSorloc's though.

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I say that you see them that way because that is all you choose to see. That is, perhaps, all you want to get.

It is funny (but not clever) that you try to escape criticism of your playing of some of the other NPCs by using three examples not relevant to the debate.


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Personal interest… hmm… yes, I admit that I was somewhat annoyed that all plot threads were ignored in favor of starting a fight with anyone available,

What threads?  As far as I understand it we were following up on them.  The adventure had only just started.  "Annoyed" - an emotional response not condusive to objectiv GMing.

Fighting:

potential fight one was with Duke and Hobart when they were pretty offensive (ie rascist) to Mule in the Den.
potential fight number two was with Flint (a PC) that pre-game we had already started the "friendly" animosity.  

the only fight so far was (what I thought was) a fist fight which your NPCs escalated into the current shoot out.

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   but if that’s what you guys want to do, then okay.

No.  Thats what you seem to be doing.  I tried to make this point earlier.  This is what we should be discussing.  Please try to recognise this.

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   I can always run those other adventures for someone else.

And we can always take our characters out of yours and run them with someone else.  I don't see whay you need to make a statement like this.

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   I was also somewhat annoyed that the actions of the PCs seemed intended to make a feature film into a 20-minute short. The players seemed to want/expect the final climactic gunfight to occur before all the characters were even introduced.

It takes two to tango.  It seems to me that, that is what you were up to.  We are probably both wrong.  We should have been talking this over a long time ago.  I am glad that you are admitting that this is somewhat personal to you.

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  OK, if that’s what you want, then fine. I’m disappointed, but the name of the game is to have fun, and if the players will have more fun doing just gun battles, then that’s what I should run.

No.  We wanted a deeper adventure than that.  Most western adventures do seem to have a bit more leniency on the protagonists than your Gming so far.  I think it may be that you have a trust issue.  Our PCs haven't killed anyone yet. In particular they haven't rampaged through the weak and innocent.  If you feel that they have exuded enough menace to imtimidate you as a Gm then perhaps you should allow some of your less hardy NPCs to back out of their way a bit.

 
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  I didn’t realize that at first; I made the assumption that the players would play the adventure as presented, and was mistaken.

I have and so have they.  In my opinion.

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  Too close to the situation may be a correct assessment – as in, playing in the game and trying to follow the adventure. Breed chose to give up on Ash, because he couldn’t see any way to play that character without being killed by the other PCs.

Funny, playing the adventure is what we were doing.  I can't speak for Ash.  If he was worried he could have PM'ed me.  Perhaps you should have suggested that or encouraged him to sit it out.  

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Just because LadyCatreece isn’t willing to abandon her character is no reason to criticize her.

Huh?  I did not criticise her for that.  She was criticised for appearing to be speaking for you.  You just backed me up on that issue.

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  So I’m placing my ego in your path? Which path is that?

You are placing your ego in the path of the adventure.

 
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  When I described the city as a county seat in a state, not a lawless frontier town, perhaps you should have spoken up then, saying, “hey, we want to play a more rough-and-tumble type of game, where the law is weak and/or disinterested.”

Nope.  The issue is not with the town itself.  There seems plenty of freedom for other guys to be a bit rough.  We were just joining in.  When we wrote up our characters you should have mentioned it if they bothered you.  I can't see how you could pretend to be surprised by them playing pretty true to their brief.

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  If my ego is what makes me want to remain true to the setting I have presented, then I must concede the point, but I would say that if my ego and the setting are one and the same, then you might as well say that the setting is blocking your path. And then I might say that when something is in your path, there are other options besides smashing your forehead against it

I think your ego wants you to remain true to the one way you envisaged the adventure flowing.  A GMs plans rarely survive the initial contact with the players and I don't understand why you were trying to be forceful about it.  My perception is that you were smashing your path in our foreheads not the other way around.

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Again, Bullshit. As stated before, and currently being demonstrated, I need no one to speak for me, rather I usually need someone to stop me.

Please.  There is more coming from you than me.  Yes, someone should stop you but that person is yourself.


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Now, maybe I misinterpreting that lucid, well-thought out and intelligent statement because I was raised in America rather than Britain, but from where I sit, it was a bit uncalled for. Now, I wouldn’t normally have considered it proper form for someone to post in a game they’re not playing in, but this is Icky’s site, and he is Admin, and apparently felt that intervention was justified, and it is within his right to do so. Yes, it irritated me, but I’m not going to post in the open forum and tell him to go to hell and get his nose out of my thread; partly because it’s his thread too, but mostly because that’s not the way I go about things. Now, that’s probably because of my American lack of understanding of the way things work in UK, but there it is

My brief and cleanly executed diversion with Ictus was happily resolved I believe.  

With me apologising for misunderstanding his intent.  The post was for Ictus, not you and he really doesn't need you to help him out particularly as he can obviously see an argument from both sides and nip it in the bud rather than dragging it out for weeks.


Back to the adventure  ... maybe .... I don't know if the other two have given up yet after you have dragged this out so long.  I'll play if they will.  Whether you get to GM anymore depends on whether you start taking my posts seriously or not.
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Offline ictus

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« Reply #216 on: June 20, 2005, 02:04:19 PM »
Enough is now enough[/color]

I thought I'd squared this, and given people escape paths, clearly i was wrong, please either use PM or the Grey Council Chamber for any more talk of this nature, it isn't good for the site, your reputations or my virgining ulcer...

Perhaps you could even move this posts there too...
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Offline Gribble

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« Reply #217 on: June 20, 2005, 04:06:39 PM »
Sorry Ictus.

You are right, I should be bigger than this.

I still think Sorloc and I do need to "have this out" in private.  I am still sure that we haven't really fallen out that badly yet and things can be worked out.  It has all got a bit over the top now and I am sorry for my part (okay - large part).  

I would like to take this opportunity to apologise to you and especially to LadyC for my earlier outbursts towards you both.  

Those two posts were really uneccessary because I allowed the fact that I was getting frustrated with Sorloc to blind me to the good intentions that you both had.

I don't know about moving them.  I'd let the posts stand as an object lesson in how not to conduct this kind of discussion....
« Last Edit: June 20, 2005, 05:35:21 PM by Gribble »
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Offline Wayne Grady

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« Reply #218 on: June 20, 2005, 05:35:39 PM »
I'm somewhat stunned that we seem to have got to this stage.

Playing by post was obviously going to be slow going but with the long delays between posts we seem to have spent a very long time getting no-where.

I have as far as I can see played Flint on an even keel and with the intention of getting into his plot thread, personally I think Flints caution was justified with the info he had. I will not be railroaded into acting in a particular way by GM or another player. It seems that for whatever reason my player has caused upset.

I'm pretty sure that in a round table game this would have been sorted out with a quick conversation, however the forum system does lend itself to lengthy and overblown statements (like this one  :D ).

I don't know why the other player withdrew - did he even have a conversation with the rest of the PC's? (the character not the person).

For my part I was hoping to have fun not an argument so I'm withdrawing from the game - Flint is an interesting character so I'll suspect he'll get ressurected, but not in this thread alas.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2005, 05:36:10 PM by Wayne Grady »
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Offline Sorloc

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« Reply #219 on: June 22, 2005, 03:00:56 AM »
Thank you all for playing!

Bye.




NEXT!
« Last Edit: June 22, 2005, 03:02:03 AM by Sorloc »

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