War Law

[Ironmaul]

I have recently aquired the I.C.E War Law boxed set and was wondering if anyone else has this product. If there is no positive feedback I won't bother expanding what I have in mind.

Cheers.

[Grinnen Baeritt]

Well you know I do... .

Something in mind? A PBP perhaps....hummm..me thinks.

[Ironmaul]

Well you know I do... .

Something in mind? A PBP perhaps....hummm..me thinks.

Me thinks you are right.

I have just started reading War Law and I'm finding it very interesting. I was thinking a one on one battle for starters (something simple) just to give me some experience in game play. Let me know if you are interested, if so we can talk more.

Cheers.

[Grinnen Baeritt]

Yes I am. Perhaps if you create a unit say 20 men and I simply use an identical unit and start them off about 200ft apart?

Make the leader a 5th level Human (Average stats) and the body of troops 1st level figthers and make the Unit a 1st level Regular Infantry Unit

What I was pondering upon was a referreed game, starting out with limited amounts of troops (Small units), where two (or more players) have recently and simultaniously discovered a previous unknown island. There would be resources to be exploited, small habitations to either loot, conquer, capture or ally with, where the commanders could recruit new troops or replace casulties. There would also be small NPC units of monsters (i.e. goblins etc) roaming the island.

All movement in this game would be hidden, so the Referee would have to set up a number of passworded threads for the game.

I spent quite a bit of time adapting the professions from RM2 to be included as the average member of a unit.. but really would like to adapt it for RMSS. This would really affect a few of the abilities of a basic member of a unit.

e.g. A unit of troops could be composed of unskilled normal NPC's or as leveled and trained NPC characters i.e. 1st-5th level Fighters

[ictus]

I have it too, and never really had a chance to play it, it may just work PbP, but there would need to be a lot of book keeping.

If you run one, I'll join in.

[Grinnen Baeritt]

A lot of bookkeeping? Really? No Kidding!

Even a simple battle between two units is paper-heavy, add in all the "whistles and bells" and you REALLY need a spreadsheet to have half a chance even with a small amount of units.

To make running a campaign worthwhile the participants would have to post regularly (about once every two weeks), supply default reactions (orders) etc.

I have run squad-leader games like this (albeit on a smaller scale) and the best bit of the game is when the leaders lose contact with their own troops and forget what default objectives and orders they had given their subordinate commanders!

As an example. I set one of the games in the Ardennes 1944. There were two commanders on either side. They worked together to produce a force of troops.

The American commanders each choose a mix of armour and infantry. The German commanders choose to specialise in either armour OR infantry.

The commanders was each given at least one radio in addition to whatever was included with their vehicles/forces normally.

When the two sides created their forces they had no idea what the other might be fielding.  As it happens the americans went for quantity over quality and the germans the reverse... The american commanders went their own way (quite frankly hardly communicated at all before the game started...) whilst the German commanders laid out quite detailed orders and plans (they worked together very, very well).

Needless to say, the American forces were disorganised and had absolutely NO idea what was going on where their allies were or what they were doing (and for over half the battle didn't know where half their own troops were!)

When I ran a post-mortum after the game I showed both sides the master map..
and told them exactly what had happened.

One of the American Commanders had sent out a jeep with a radio with orders to scout out the road ahead...he drove off never to be seen again (Not exactly his fault he wasn't to know that the German armour was coming down the same road from the other direction, that his radio would fail or that one of the German commanders was in the lead tank..a King Tiger, who promptly saved ammo by doing an overrun on the jeep.

The German commander had simply purchased the best available...3 King Tigers

[Ironmaul]

Here it is. I think it is right, I've just started reading the book so bare with me if its wrong.

Leader: Caleasto
Race: Female Human.
Level: 5th.
OB melee = 90.
OB missile = 40.
DB = 40.
SB = 20.
AT = 10.
HP = 97.

Pre: 85, Em: 57. Stat average = 71.
Skill ranks:
Recruitment ranks = 4.
Leadership ranks = 6.
Military Organization ranks = 1.
Tactics ranks = 0.
 
Leadership rating = 8.
Recruitment potential = 84.
Command potential = 24.


Unit: Light Infantry.
Race: Human.
Level: 1st.
Unit Stats:
Discipline = +0.
Survivability = + 0.
Ferocity = +5.
Endurance = +0.
OB melee = 65. Scimitar (+5 Ferocity bonus)
OB missile = 35. Javelin (+5 Ferocity bonus)
DB = 0.
SB = 20.
AT = 10.
MPT = 6.
MR = 100.
Size = 20.
Unit HP = 700 (35).

[Ironmaul]

Ictus, I challenge your warriors against mine.

[Grinnen Baeritt]

The leaders stats can be abbreviated quite a bit as their actual combat abilities will rarely come into play...however a good start the most important parts for a battle are the three skills:tactics, military organisation and leadership skills.

The unit will automatically have a default subordinate NCO leaders (more or less identical to the rank and file troops), where more than one large unit is involved though subordinate leaders are far more important....!

As it is this leader is only barely capable of leading the unit without penalties (20/24ths of his command potential).

She recieves a bonus to Leadership of +5 for a unit of this size when it is in formation.

If the refereed rules are used..the unit itself becomes a character-like entity having skills itself.

The individual members of the unit have levels in addition to the level of the unit, their skills ADD to similar skills possessed by the unit as a whole.

Example: Ranks in a Primary Weapon are supplimented by any ranks that an individual member of the unit possesses.

When creating an Average unit member I always assume that only 25% of thier DP will have been spent on skills common to the entire unit or limit the skills that are common to those gained from training packages.  

However, only the average level of the soldiers within it is used when working out the level of its members and only skills which ALL members have are relevant when adding to those possessed by the unit. All the members of the unit are considered to have average stats. Therefore, the only Prime Stats for the profession are exceptional (i.e.90) all others would be 50.

What this means is that the varying races and professions also come into play much more than the simplified (Basic) game. It complicates the game, at least during the inital creation of the unit, but adds some really exciting possibilities.

For example: Common Man (1st level Fighters) would have skills which would differ from the same unit comprised of Common Man (1st level Rangers).

So, in addition to the skills gained from being trained as part of a unit the men would also have (I've assumed Common Rural Man)

2 Ranks Body Development (add to Physical Training)
1 Rank in Edged (Scimitar add to Primary Weapon)
1 Rank in Thrown (Javilin add to Secondary Weapon)
1 Rank in Stalk
1 Rank in Hide

Add to this that they all have taken the TP (Soldier)

2 Ranks in Edged (Scimitar)
2 Ranks in Body Development

[Grinnen Baeritt]

Me? I'm going for a Hobbit Catering corps   ...(although corpse will probably be more appropriate... _

[Sorloc]

I've got a region in my world (steppes terrain, rolling hills, light trees) wherin live both Centaurs and Halflings.  I have long held that the area has remained independent of either Human or Dyari rule by fielding Halfling missile troops mounted upon Centaur lancers.  Is there any way to simulate this combination in War Law?

[Grinnen Baeritt]

I expect so.. although technically both could serve as independant units and therefore the costs of maintaining the unit would be as if they were two seperate units. The chances of recruiting replacements would be slim, should the unit take casulties.

I would average the bonuses/penalties form both races when generating the unit:

Hobbit: Discipline +0, Ferocity -15, Survivabilty +15, Endurance +15
Centaur: Discipline +0. Ferocity +10. Survivability +0, Endurance +0

Combined: Discipline +0, Ferocity -5, Survivability +10, Endurance +10

In much the same manner only the highest skill would be used from the partnership...i.e. Lance for the Centaur, Bow for the Hobbit.

Unlike conventional cavalry units, this combination is dominated by the "mount", War Law assumes that the rider will be the target not the mount, if the rider is eliminated it also means the neutalisation of the mount.  This would not be logical in this case.. I would rule that the combination would act from a unit point of view, but with two seperate records kept for the point of damage. Any damage caused to the unit would be distributed evenly amongst the unit based upon size 25% damage sustained by the hobbits 75% sustained by the Centaurs UNLESS the enemy choose to target a specific part of the combination. What this could mean is that one part of the combination (either the hobbit or Centaur) could break and rout when making a morale check.

Technically, the hobbits might rout when failing a morale check (i.e. dismounting and running away) but the centaurs might choose to fight on...however as soon as the hobbits break the Centaurs would have to make a 2nd morale check for being in close proximity to a routing unit.  If the situation were reversed the hobbits would either be carried away too or forced to dismount..either way they too would be forced to make another morale check.

[ictus]

If I remember rightly, War Law is a points based wargame, each side is issued points and they spend them, with these choices being the key to your tacktics and ultimatly who wins.

Ironmaul - I accept...

Will referee?

how many points, map terain etc etc etc

this could be really good fun if we can make it work.

hmmmmmm, perhaps we can add a wargame section, napolionics, modern, SciFi the list is endless.

[Grinnen Baeritt]

Actually one of the major failings of Warlaw was that it didn't come with a points system (You may have been thinking of Bladestorm.. ).

I have created a basic points system for the system and a method of incorperating the various classes available in RM2 as Unit Members. However I intend somewhat limiting the various professions available and altering the skills system so that it is similar to RMSS rather than RM2.

War Law has two games the standard (Simple) and referreed (Complex).

For this little skirmish, both sides would be identical, just so we get used to the ideas incorporated in the refereed game.

Both units would meet on flat clear terrain, a few hundred feet apart (just out of javilin range) then simply try to kill each other.

In the refereed game, many different formations and manuvers are available which are simply not used in the standard game. For this battle I suggest the simplest...Line. Both units start in this formation and under control.

The events within War Law are more or less simultanous. The sides do not take turns...! However, there will be a order for which things will occur and I will be using the RMSS (Phase) system for Snap/Normal/Deliberate actions to determine exactly when things occur.

1. Orders are submitted.

Each player (leader) states (via PM) what he wishes his troops to do during the turn and what (if any) tactics he intends to use...

e.g. Launch javilins, then change weapon, then charge the enemy or whatever. All activities are subject to the same restrictions as they would be in a normal RM combat (i.e. each action takes a percentage of the available time)

2. Casulties are inflicted...in the order that they occur. If both units attack on the same phase both have the potential to inflict casulties before the casulties occur. If one side attacks before the other, the casulties are inflicted before the other side can reply.

3. Morale checks are made for both sides if required.

4. G.M. declares the results and discribes the action as it appears to the leader.

How do you wish to handle the die rolls...I'm un-biased  

[Ironmaul]

If I remember rightly, War Law is a points based wargame, each side is issued points and they spend them, with these choices being the key to your tacktics and ultimatly who wins.

This points system could be incorporated into this sites pebbles, in other words buy your leaders. Also if a leader is captured then a ransom could be payed by the owner for that leader to be returned, for example my leader Caleasto is 5th level and has a Leadership rating of 8, Recruitment Potential of 84, and a Command Potential of 24 wich totals 116; you then multiply this total by her level (5th) which comes to 580 Pebbles. It's just a thought.

Ironmaul - I accept...

Bravo! looking forward to seeing you slaughtered on the killing fields.

hmmmmmm, perhaps we can add a wargame section, napolionics, modern, SciFi the list is endless.

Call this section War Lords and I'll make my banner to promote it on the ICE forums. If my hunch is right it will be a hit as there is quite a few ICE fans that want War Law. We will have to recruite refferees to run a few games but that will come in time I guess. A theme could coinside with ICEs new world Cyradon when it's released which will get ICEs attention I'm sure.

[Ironmaul]

I've got a region in my world (steppes terrain, rolling hills, light trees) wherin live both Centaurs and Halflings.  I have long held that the area has remained independent of either Human or Dyari rule by fielding Halfling missile troops mounted upon Centaur lancers.

This long held rumour may soon be short lived.  

[ictus]

War Lords, liking it IM, if only there was a War Law for HARP, that was simpler than War Law, and a free download.

Not sure about the pebbles, but maybe.

Well it looks like GB has volenteered to ref at least one game - thanks GB

And as I have never actually played WL only read the rules (a long while back) you will probably slaughter me, but I have played other war games, so we shall see.

Give me a chance to re read the rules, and we shall be off.

[Grinnen Baeritt]

Yep...still willing to run one BUT I had intentions to change a few things about the Unit creation rules for the campaign. Basically I wanted to simplify/improve the skill purchase procedure for units so that it will gel with the rules for RMSS. I'm keeping all those lovely tables for combat/Morale etc though .

So far I've decided that the relevent skills categories should be:

Weapons Training.
(Primary and Secondary Weapon)

Physical Training

These categores will be modified by ranks purchased by the individual members of the unit based on their profession and TP. Basically the bonus is determined by adding the ranks together for the appropriate skills then calculating the overall bonus.

All the skills in the following seven categories are modified by any ranks that an individual unit member has in Military Organisation. This determines that individuals ability to understand orders and work together with others in the unit.

Each of the skills within the categories will have indentical purchase costs to others within that category. However, modifiers apply when using different skills based upon the complexity and difficulty of the manuever.

Formation Skills (Basic)

Formation Skills (Complex)

Unit Manuvuer Skills

Unit Response Skills

Unit Drill Skills

Co-Operative Tactics

Unit Battle Skills

General Skills in War Law is a very large group of unassociated skills the majority  of which are available as seperate skills, I'll leave or assign these to appropriate RMSS skills categories. The Purchase cost for these will be based on the profession of the unit member rather than the Unit type itself.

[Grinnen Baeritt]

Right, to create an individal member of the unit I've worked out the following:

Primary Weapon (Scimitar)

2 Ranks TP (soldier) at 1st Level
1 Rank  (Adolescent)
2 Ranks (Purchased at Basic Training)
2 Ranks (Purchased at 1st)

+35 (Ranks)
+20 (Profession)
+5 (Ferocity)

=+60

Secondary Weapon (Javilin)

1 Rank (Adolescent)
2 Ranks (Purchased at Basic Training)
2 Ranks (Purchased at 1st)

+25 (Ranks)
+20 (Profession)
+5 (Ferocity)

= +50

Physical Training (Body Development)

2 Ranks (Adolescent)
2 Ranks (TP: Soldier at 1st)
2 Ranks (Purchased at Basic Training)
2 Ranks (Purchased at 1st)

48 (8 Ranks * 6) +10 (Base) +10 (Warrior) = 68

Therefore the unit as a whole would have 20 * 68 = 1360 hits.

I've aslo assumed that the following skills have been purchased during Basic Training and at 1st level:

4 Ranks (Line)
4 Ranks (Fill in the Ranks)
4 Ranks (Retreat)
4 Ranks (Open Horde)

Each would therefore +20 +5 (Military Organisation) +0 (Discipline) = +25

[Grinnen Baeritt]

Mine and Ironmauls calculations were not that far apart...apart from the HPT of the units.  B)

1. What are the unit names for the two sides?
2. How do you want to handle dice rolling and orders?

As I mentioned before, Warlaw uses the same %activity system as RMSS. So when you write your orders you will have to be specific as to what you are doing (or what you INTEND your troops to do.. and how fast you are attempting it.(i.e as a snap, normal or deliberate action.)

You have the potiental to spread your actions over the round thus:

Charge forward at a run into contact (Normal) and Attack (Deliberate Remainder%).

Also you need to specify what % of your available OB is parry...VERY IMPORTANT!

There is a variable time scale for handling combat rounds, for this I will be handling it using the basic RM 10 second round.

Since the thrown range for a Javilin is 100ft I'll start the two units 110 ft apart.

The conditions are clear open ground, ground flat, firm and level. It is daytime.

Both Units are formed up and in LINE formation.

(whenever the unit moves there is a chance that the formation will lose coherency and degrade into OPEN HORDE formation, if this degrades then this becomes a retreat Formation.)

Both sides have the same Morale (determined and enhanced by their leader).